Glenn Phillips Interview | The opportunity to fail, come back and try again: a key part of being able to learn

Not many cricketers have managed to transition from a wicketkeeper-batter into a proper all-rounder, and one that excels as an off-spinner no less. Not many New Zealand spinners can boast of a Test five-wicket haul on home soil. And not many cricketers are predominantly remembered for their unbelievable catches.

Welcome to the world of Glenn Phillips, a man who has managed to buck the trend and carve a niche for himself.

The all-rounder — hoping to get consistent game-time with Gujarat Titans in the Indian Premier League this year — gave an insight into his transition into an off-spinner, his ability to hold on to stunning catches, his desire to have an identity beyond cricket, and more. Excerpts:

How did it dawn upon you to convert into a spin-bowling all-rounder from a wicketkeeping all-rounder?

It was pretty simple. I hate wicketkeeping, so that is that first off. Then off-spin side of things, I have been doing it for a long, long time. I have always bowled in the nets and I have loved it. I don’t know why I love it, but I do. There’s always an opportunity in the nets to bowl. It’s a skill that’s obviously hard. Batters are incredibly strong these days, it’s a batters’ world. So to be able to try and access that bowling side of things is a good challenge.

I felt like as a wicketkeeper I was stuck in one place and it was really boring. I didn’t enjoy it at all. But to be able to have the opportunity to bowl, that means that I can be involved in both halves and that’s what is the most appealing part of it.

Were you forced into wicketkeeping early on?

There are not many people who can catch [the ball] when you are young and I got very frustrated. Therefore I was like ‘just let me do it’. Wicketkeeping was more out of a default. I used to love it but then I trained really hard for a really long time when I was young and just blew a gasket and realised that I’d rather run around in the field.

Unfortunately, when you are good at something, the coaches and staff make you do it because no one else can do it and therefore until there were other wicketkeepers that were good enough to do it, the opportunity to bowl never really came up. I pretty much spent the better part of 10 years of my career trying to get out of wicketkeeping, unfortunately.

Now that you have established yourself as a proper all-rounder, what about it do you enjoy the most?

It’s just the ability to be involved in both halves. I love the feeling of taking a wicket, to be able to see a ball turn back through the gate and hit the stumps. [Like in] the Tests against India recently where bowling actually had a huge part to play. It makes you very selectable if you can be involved in both halves.

I am first and foremost a batter. But to be able to offer the captain [a few] overs with the ball makes you very versatile in any team you are in. It stems from wanting to bowl in Test cricket the most. There’s a higher element of skill involved there, the wickets are incredibly hard to come by and they make it very, very satisfying to be a part of.

Taking my first five-for against Australia in Wellington was an incredible feeling and there’s nothing quite like it. Scoring a hundred is great, but taking a five-wicket haul is pretty incredibly hard to do, so it takes the cake.

When it comes to the limited-overs format, do you enjoy being a batter first or a bowler?

I enjoy being a batter first. It’s my job, but bowling is definitely my hobby. I love bowling. I bowl in any situation. I understand that there’s gonna be situations that are hard to bowl and if the captain is willing to throw me the ball, I want it. You need opportunities in a game to be able to grow and I’ve had great leaders, Kane (Williamson), (Mitchell) Santner, Tim Southee and Tom Latham, who all believed in me and gave me the opportunity to fail as well.

That’s quite a key part of being able to learn as a bowler and take a step forward, being given the opportunity to fail, come back and try again. They’ve been incredible for that.

Rajasthan Royals for half a season, then Sunrisers Hyderabad and now Gujarat Titans. What’s on the top of your wish-list for IPL 2025?

To play consistently would be nice. I’ve been a part of a couple of teams where, as the overseas players, we’ve been incredibly strong and I understood it. You come, you live, you learn, I try to use the opportunity to work really hard on my fitness, on my fielding and making sure that I have an opportunity to improve my game, especially in the spin side of things going into the rest of the year and all the tours to come.

If I have the opportunity to play here, that would be fantastic. That would be definitely on the top of my list, but I’m all for whatever the team needs.

I am not gonna waste my time here [in India] regardless. I’m gonna make sure that I train hard, I work hard in the gym if I’m not playing and if I am playing, I’ll give my best 100%.

When you don’t get opportunities in the IPL, how do you keep calm and avoid getting frustrated?

I’ve got many hobbies. I’m not gonna be wasting my time or get frustrated. I’ve played padel-ball most nights, I’ve got my flight simulator here, I play golf and I hang out with the boys. Often my wife comes on tour as well, so we enjoy hanging out together. So I have plenty to keep me busy. At the end of the day, I try to make sure that cricket is not my identity. It’s obviously a job and it’s a sport and I love it, but there’s a bigger part of me and I need to make sure that I keep myself happy on the inside because otherwise, cricket’s gonna take its toll. I gotta make sure that I’m happy, rested and have a balanced life.

Do you consider yourself a better padel player or a better cricketer?

Uhh no, definitely a better cricketer but yet to be a better padel-ball player.

Which one of your catches do you watch on loop?

I don’t actually watch any on loop. When they happen, I watch them on a loop for a little bit because they obviously pop up all over my Instagram. But I think the catch of Marcus Stoinis on the boundary at the T20 World Cup, that’s probably the one I’ve seen the most.

What’s the key to being such a consistent catcher? Reaching out to the ball is one thing, holding on to it to another, right?

Yeah, absolutely. People misunderstand how good my catching is necessarily, because, obviously, I have dropped plenty of catches as well. I just happened to hold on to a few that are incredibly tough. I’m human like everybody else, so I train as hard as I can to make sure that the 90% catches stay. That gives me the confidence to at least go for those 10 % catches and hopefully some of them stick. I have dropped plenty of them. I probably could have had eight or nine more in my career so far, but the fact [is] that between 10 to 15 have stuck. It has been an incredible sort of feeling going through my career. Everyone hopes for maybe one or two in their career and I’ve been lucky enough to have a good stent. A big chunk of luck is involved as well.

What has been more challenging to improve? Fielding or bowling?

Bowling, because I had a lot of wicketkeeping bias to get over. I have always been a good fielder and everybody knows I’ve always been a good fielder. But in New Zealand, we’ve got a thing where (it’s assumed) wicketkeepers physically aren’t able to bowl. I am trying to change that stigma. It took years to be able to get the opportunity to bowl and prove that I could do it, so bowling is definitely the more challenging side of things.